Comments on: The Decline Of 20-Game Winners: A Lack Of Quality Not Quantity http://seamheads.com/2008/05/17/the-decline-of-20-game-winners-a-lack-of-quality-not-quantity/ Tue, 22 May 2012 12:58:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Brian Joseph http://seamheads.com/2008/05/17/the-decline-of-20-game-winners-a-lack-of-quality-not-quantity/comment-page-1/#comment-1574 Brian Joseph Tue, 20 May 2008 05:35:50 +0000 http://seamheads.com/blog/2008/05/17/the-decline-of-20-game-winners-a-lack-of-quality-not-quantity/#comment-1574 Yes... but 1999 & 2000 were the two highest runs scored seasons in the history of baseball and there were 3 & 4 20-game winners those years. In addition, there were 7 20-game winners in 2001 and runs scored in '01 were fairly close to the runs scored in '06 & '07 when there was just 1 total 20-game winner.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('1574','Brian Joseph'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('1574','Brian Joseph','Yes... but 1999 & 2000 were the two highest runs scored seasons in the history of baseball and there were 3 & 4 20-game winners those years. In addition, there were 7 20-game winners in 2001 and runs scored in \'01 were fairly close to the runs scored in \'06 & \'07 when there was just 1 total 20-game winner.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Yes… but 1999 & 2000 were the two highest runs scored seasons in the history of baseball and there were 3 & 4 20-game winners those years. In addition, there were 7 20-game winners in 2001 and runs scored in ’01 were fairly close to the runs scored in ’06 & ’07 when there was just 1 total 20-game winner.
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]]> By: Scott Cuellar http://seamheads.com/2008/05/17/the-decline-of-20-game-winners-a-lack-of-quality-not-quantity/comment-page-1/#comment-1572 Scott Cuellar Tue, 20 May 2008 02:43:05 +0000 http://seamheads.com/blog/2008/05/17/the-decline-of-20-game-winners-a-lack-of-quality-not-quantity/#comment-1572 Interesting. Your argument is solid statistically but I am not sure that it proves the conclusion about a deficiency of quality pitching. It could be possible that, over the last two decades, the statistics you cite are driven by batters being consistently better (or enhanced). This could mean that it is more difficult for the best starters to consistently shut teams down - sort of leveling the playing field among starting pitchers.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('1572','Scott Cuellar'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('1572','Scott Cuellar','Interesting. Your argument is solid statistically but I am not sure that it proves the conclusion about a deficiency of quality pitching. It could be possible that, over the last two decades, the statistics you cite are driven by batters being consistently better (or enhanced). This could mean that it is more difficult for the best starters to consistently shut teams down - sort of leveling the playing field among starting pitchers.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Interesting. Your argument is solid statistically but I am not sure that it proves the conclusion about a deficiency of quality pitching. It could be possible that, over the last two decades, the statistics you cite are driven by batters being consistently better (or enhanced). This could mean that it is more difficult for the best starters to consistently shut teams down – sort of leveling the playing field among starting pitchers.
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]]> By: John Lease http://seamheads.com/2008/05/17/the-decline-of-20-game-winners-a-lack-of-quality-not-quantity/comment-page-1/#comment-1569 John Lease Sun, 18 May 2008 12:23:35 +0000 http://seamheads.com/blog/2008/05/17/the-decline-of-20-game-winners-a-lack-of-quality-not-quantity/#comment-1569 Interesting. If QS's are any indicator, John Van Benschoten will never win 20 games in his career. It's nice to have some statistical backup for this, but it sure matches what I've felt has been the case for at least the last 15 years or so. So few teams have really 5 acceptable ML caliber starters anymore, which I think is much more tied to the dilution of talent by expansion than anything else. Guys with very average stuff who are durable are now rewarded financially as well as great pitchers used to be. Example 1A would be Jeff Suppan. http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/suppaje01.shtml Never a season where he had more innings than hits allowed, the only ones where he was even close were by far his best. It clearly pays to be mediocre and durable today.<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('1569','John Lease'); return false;">Reply</a> - <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('1569','John Lease','Interesting. If QS\'s are any indicator, John Van Benschoten will never win 20 games in his career.\r\n\r\nIt\'s nice to have some statistical backup for this, but it sure matches what I\'ve felt has been the case for at least the last 15 years or so. So few teams have really 5 acceptable ML caliber starters anymore, which I think is much more tied to the dilution of talent by expansion than anything else.\r\n\r\nGuys with very average stuff who are durable are now rewarded financially as well as great pitchers used to be. Example 1A would be Jeff Suppan. http:\/\/www.baseball-reference.com\/s\/suppaje01.shtml\r\n\r\nNever a season where he had more innings than hits allowed, the only ones where he was even close were by far his best. It clearly pays to be mediocre and durable today.'); return false;">Quote</a></div> Interesting. If QS’s are any indicator, John Van Benschoten will never win 20 games in his career.

It’s nice to have some statistical backup for this, but it sure matches what I’ve felt has been the case for at least the last 15 years or so. So few teams have really 5 acceptable ML caliber starters anymore, which I think is much more tied to the dilution of talent by expansion than anything else.

Guys with very average stuff who are durable are now rewarded financially as well as great pitchers used to be. Example 1A would be Jeff Suppan. http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/suppaje01.shtml

Never a season where he had more innings than hits allowed, the only ones where he was even close were by far his best. It clearly pays to be mediocre and durable today.

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